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Interview: Evan Mayor and Nia Tumor discuss controversy over the name of a dorm at Vanderbilt University

November 11, 2002

TAVIS SMILEY, host: From NPR in Los Angeles, I'm Tavis Smiley.

The last shot of the Civil War was fired nearly 140 years ago, but on the campus of Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, the conflict continues, at least symbolically. The United Daughters of the Confederacy, the UDC, a group of women descended from Civil War veterans, is suing to block Vanderbilt from changing the name of Confederate Memorial Hall, one of its dormitories. UDC helped pay for the dorm and says Vanderbilt is obliged to keep the word `Confederate' in the building's name. The issue has polarized Vanderbilt's campus and two students join us now to discuss it. Evan Mayor is a sophomore and news editor of the Vanderbilt Hustler, the school's student newspaper. He's a political science and communication studies major.

Welcome, Evan.

Mr. EVAN MAYOR (Vanderbilt Student): Thanks for having me on the show.

SMILEY: Glad to have you on, sir. And Nia Tumor(ph) is a senior and president of Vanderbilt's Black Student Alliance. She's majoring in psychology.

Hi there, Nia.

Ms. NIA TUMOR (Vanderbilt Student): How you doing, Tavis?

SMILEY: I'm well. Glad to have you on as well. Evan, let me start with you. First, tell me why you are opposed to the name being removed.

Mr. MAYOR: OK. Well, this story arose at the beginning of this year at the Hustler, and we talked with administrators, and we were wondering if they had let the United Daughters of Confederacy know about the name change since they donated a third of the money for the construction. And they asked us to hold an article until they were able to tell them, and then they gave us the OK. We ran the article, and I called the UDC in Virginia, and they said that they had no clue, they were not informed. So my position is that the university has handled this situation all wrong, and if somebody donates money to construct a building and they agree on a name, then they should definitely be included in the process of changing that name.

SMILEY: OK. Fair enough. There may be some legal issues here then, Evan. But I wonder whether or not you think there is a moral component to this? I mean, should African-American students in particular have to live in a building named for those who oppressed their ancestors, never mind whatever arrangement the school has made? So it's not the students' fault, it's the university's fault, and these students have to be oppressed living in that building. Don't they have a point, you think?

Mr. MAYOR: I think that the name Confederate Memorial Hall is really a memorial the ancestors of people that died in the Civil War. These ladies are not racist, they're not prejudiced, they're just trying to honor their ancestors. There are monuments around the country that they're having to fight for now to keep these names on these buildings to honor their ancestors, and it's just sad to see that they have to fight like this for these memorials to their ancestors. I don't feel like it's a race issue at all.

SMILEY: OK.

Mr. MAYOR: I feel like they're just trying to remember history and history is being erased on this campus.

SMILEY: All right, Nia, if the Daughters of the Confederacy helped pay for the building, doesn't Evan have a good point, that they should have some say so over how it's named?

Ms. TUMOR: One, they're still gonna keep it Memorial Hall, so that is still gonna commemorate the soldiers that did die on the behalf of the Confederacy. But I don't think that they have a point because, one, if they want their money back, I think Vanderbilt should go ahead and give it back to them, 'cause it does demean African-Americans and other minority students on this campus. It does promote segregation of blacks and whites on this racially lacking campus. So I just don't think that that's basically the total issue, and it's not about money.

SMILEY: Is there a cost to changing the name, Evan, and if so, what is it?

Mr. MAYOR: Yes. Yes, it is. They haven't put an exact amount, but they've had to change the name in brochures, on the Web site, in maps. They haven't done this yet, but they're gonna put up scaffolds and actually take the engraving off the top of the building, which is gonna cost, I would imagine, a significant amount of money. And I feel like there's plenty of other programs on campus--if you know, the freshman class has 6 percent African-Americans. That's not representative at all of the population of African-Americans in America. And there are plenty of other programs, diversity education programs, that they can put this money into that are gonna do a lot more good for race relations on campus than changing the name of a building. I think the university wanted a quick fix to this. They've gotten tons of publicity. It's been on CNN, it's been on Fox. It's been, you know, Boston Globe, Seattle Intelligencer. They've gotten their publicity, you know. They want to get out there as, like, they're not a racist university and, you know, they've done their symbolic thing. But the programs have to be in place first.

SMILEY: Evan makes a point I think that many, Nia, will find legitimate. Let me pose a question to you in this way: Aren't there more issues, certainly issues of recruiting minority students and minority retention and graduating those students? Aren't there other issues that the minority students could be focused on, the black students should be focused on, than a name change? I suspect there's some listening right now who are saying of all the issues that Vanderbilt has, this is the most important issue black students can be fighting for?

Ms. TUMOR: One, this is not the most important issue at all. We're just supporting it because we just wanted to show everyone that we are behind the name change and we do support the university in their decision. But not at all--this is not what I even think about on a normal, regular day basis. Yes, we do meet with administration--and every day I talk about recruitment and retention, and that's basically what our most important issues are. And recruiting African-American faculty that have tenure. We are at the bottom at Vanderbilt right now, and that's something that we have addressed, and that's basically one of the issues that are currently on the table right now, and that I'm glad you asked me the question that I could put out there, because that's more--you know, not more important, but that's also something else that we focus on on an everyday basis.

Mr. MAYOR: Sure.

SMILEY: Let me close with this question. First you, Evan, and then you, Nia. How do you think this conflict ultimately is gonna be resolved, and how will it ultimately, if at all, affect race relations on the campus?

Mr. MAYOR: Well, I think that this conflict has done nothing but divided the campus, and until race is not an issue, nothing is gonna be equal. I think that the name is gonna change. I think that the university has looked into the legality of the situation, and I don't think they would make the change if there was anything there. I mean, I think the UDC does have a valid lawsuit, but I think that they probably will lose, and the name will be changed, and it will be forgotten in a couple years. But I think until race is not an issue, there's not gonna be race relations on campus.

SMILEY: Nia, last word.

Ms. TUMOR: Well, the name is changed, so that's not--I mean, it's not gonna go back to Confederate Memorial Hall, so the UDC will lose on that issue. But what's gonna change that is basically the efforts the students make to go ahead and work together and try not to judge each other on racial basis. But on terms of the building--like the Confederate soldiers that were, you know, in support of, you know, slavery are rolling in their graves, because there are African-Americans that attend Vanderbilt right now and are living in that building, and you know, are kicking back saying, `Look now. Look what--you lost, you know, and we're here now.' And basically that's what matters now, and I just think that the university needs to make more strides to try to promote diversity. And basically I just wanted to thank also the Green Party for supporting us on a national level and coming on the side of the BSA, helping us with this issue.

SMILEY: Nia Tumor is a senior and the president of Vanderbilt's Black Student Alliance. Evan Mayor is a sophomore and the news editor of the Vanderbilt Hustler, the school's student newspaper.

Nia and Evan, thank you both for your time. I appreciate it.

Ms. TUMOR: You're welcome.

Mr. MAYOR: Thanks for having us. Thanks.

SMILEY: On tomorrow's program, more on the US showdown with Iraq during a special conversation with national security adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice.

But coming up in just a few moments, commentator Connie Rice looks at how the Republican victory in last week's midterm elections will affect upcoming battles over the nomination and confirmation of federal judges.

It's 29 minutes past the hour.

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