Patrick: Reading Parmy's book now. Just getting to the part about you. me: It's okay, there are a few mistakes on various things that I'm aware of, others I've heard about from a few other people who were active in various other things I wasn't me: For instance, I apparently live in Houston Patrick: Heh Patrick: I know that's wrong me: ironically, she got lots of basic info on me from Dallas' city mag, that did a big profile on me last year, so odd mistake to make, but then she's English so all Texas cities must be interchangable me: but anyway, trying to accurately cover Anon is extraordinarily difficult and she did a fairly good job under the circumstances, spent a lot of time talking to people, etc Patrick: It seems like a good book so far me: Keep in mind that it focuses disproportionately on Lulzsec, which was really an unfortunate thing Patrick: Have you been following all the insanity lately surrounding Neal etc. me: as she had great deal of access to Topiary, the young man who was kind of its "spokesman" me: Not as much lately, I caught a lot of it via Memeorandum starting with the initial court proceeding Patrick: Just listened to his "debate" with the yutz from Westboro Baptist Patrick: Lulz, as you folks say me: which was, as you guys have noted, very ridiculous Patrick: I put on the YouTube as I read about it in the book Patrick: Topiary seems like a good guy from the book so far plus the YouTube me: that a judge would start citing whatever bizarre cultural conventions he remembers from his Bronx youth or whatever when deciding something like this is pretty unprofessional, or whatever term is used Patrick: But what do I know Patrick: Vaughey? Yeah, that shit was crazy me: looking at your blog now, I see Holder's not responding to anything at all these days Patrick: True dat Patrick: What were the jokes about your penis on the show I'm reading about? Patrick: Radio Payback me: show? Patrick: WhiteKidney me: Oh, I don't remember, there's just a lot of generic ribbing that goes on, centralized among certain individuals/venues Patrick: So it's small then. Got it. Patrick: :) Patrick: Just call that generic ribbing Patrick: About your small penis Patrick: We can move on from the topic of your small penis if you like... me: That was probably the gist, keep in mind one gets subjected to literally constant inane convo in some of the "working venues," which is one reason a lot of good people left Patrick: Gotcha Patrick: Moving on me: it's not a problem unless it overtakes everything, and it can do that depending on what the ratio is of people who want to spend their time working vs. people who are bored and want to fuck around on internet Patrick: Indeed me: there are several unusual factors that have a huge impact on how things go, that are rather different than the factors that effect actual institutions Patrick: Are you trying to divert the discussion from the smallness of your penis? me: probably you've gotten a clearer sense of how Anon became "activist" partly by chance, and against the will of a lot of the "original" folks me: Always Patrick: That's fine. I would Patrick: Reading the book I am getting a sense Patrick: Again I am only 40% in, about Patrick: It seems you were pushing the activism Patrick: From what I have seen so far Patrick: Which I recall from the time Patrick: I know you were pushing Tunisia etc. me: I was ~(___(._.)-E Patrick: WTF? Patrick: (Why The Face?) me: In explanation, that was my friend's girlfriend who just came back here from concert, asked me who I was talking to, and then asked to make a "cat face" to that person me: So that was apparently a cat face Patrick: Well there you have it me: I'm in Brooklyn for the week so staying with a couple of my friends Patrick: Ron Brynaert? me: to do this Bloomberg/Businessweek taping last night me: heh Patrick: Ha! me: I've never been able to figure out exactly what he thinks I did to him Patrick: He is friends with everybody! me: And what his deal is, exactly Patrick: Why not you? Patrick: He is just a Dale Carnegie adherent, as far as I can tell. Patrick: Making friends and influencing people everywhere he goes me: Well, I think he thinks I "hacked" him or something, but I'm not sure; he's written at least one blog post about me me: And thinks I have CIA ties Patrick: Who doesn't? Patrick: He's CERTAINLY not insane. That much I know! Patrick: Not completely, verifiably INSANE Patrick: At ALL! me: Well, he himself has explained as much! Patrick: Indeed Patrick: So there you have it me: So is this whole thing more or less over, or what? Patrick: I guess me: Or is it going to be something that never really resolves, and various lesser-known bloggers maintain hostilities on both sides (not including Brynart's pseudo-side)? Or what? Patrick: Why wouldn't it be? Patrick: Well Patrick: I don't see what drives it going forward Patrick: Neal and Brett seem to have shut up Patrick: Mostly OccupyRebellion threatens to keep it going I guess Patrick: And she is pretty toothless Patrick: So I guess it's done Patrick: Unless they keep it going Patrick: I am tired of it all Patrick: I guess they will investigate the recent SWATtings Patrick: But probably get nowhere Patrick: So there it will lie me: Well, bright side is, will perhaps bring attention to the methodologies that are now increasingly available to the unethical/disturbed Patrick: Wasn't Neal's bullshit fairly obvious as of October 2010?? me: swatting is probably still fairly rare, there's other stuff more along the lines of disinfo that I've seen/had deployed against me which seems to have sort of developed and spread within certain facets of both internet culture and, to lesser extent, certain "professions" with lax ethical guidelines, and even a lot of media people don't know about them yet Patrick: Fairly rare but 4 instances in the past year Patrick: Notable because firearms get involved Patrick: I am a victim of disinfo as well, but the whole gun pointed at my head thing bothers me more me: Pat, you've got to keep in mind that I didn't pay a lot of attention to Neal, and didn't follow this thing as closely as those involved in it Patrick: Go figure me: Yeah, you're right to be bothered by it. I'm saying "still relatively rare" because I think it will happen more. Patrick: Of course it will happen more Patrick: Only 4 so far Patrick: Hey, you never sent your proof that Stacy McCain slandered you Patrick: I was hoping to hold you to your honorable claim that you would take on Leiderman Patrick: Due to his total fucking bullshit in going after me me: Did you read his blog posts about me probably being an FBI agent? me: That might be a good place to start. Patrick: Nope, you were going to send me links, I thought me: I guess I can't prove I'm not. Patrick: Nope Patrick: Who would have thought Sabu was Patrick: Weird part is I would respect you more if you were Patrick: But look at me, I'm the DA Patrick: So there you have it Patrick: I like snitches Patrick: You hate them Patrick: I like law enforcement Patrick: You don't Patrick: I don't see it as slander to call someone an FBI snitch me: Okay Patrick: I see Darby as doing God's work Patrick: I know you must disagree Patrick: But as always Patrick: I tell you the truth Patrick: No bullshit Patrick: What an idiot I am, huh? Always saying what I actually think Patrick: Derp, as you guys say Patrick: Derp derp derp me: Yeah, I don't say those things. Patrick: Of course Patrick: You hate snitches Patrick: Oh Patrick: You mean hackerspeal Patrick: k Patrick: OK Patrick: Maybe not Patrick: Anyway off to bed me: Can you please keep in mind that I've done absolutely nothing to you? Patrick: Of course! Patrick: I would not be talking to you otherwise me: I'm sorry that you and others are in this thing with Neal, and I don't like him, and I've told you that I think you're absolutely right about him. Patrick: You have indeed Patrick: I feel like a sucker sometimes for taking people at their word, but I take you at your word me: And I'm sorry that you've been dealt with unfairly by him, by whoever else is with that group of people, and by whoever else, etc. me: You getting the cops called on you in that thing was horrible, and I take it very seriously. Patrick: Well, thank you for saying that me: The last time we spoke, I got the impression that you think I'm trying to pump you for info or something. I have never spoken to Neal about you or much at all in the last year or so, have never been involved in any of his projects, and only spoke to him off and on in my IRC, and only paid attention/took seriously his input on literally two occasions, one of which involved a project described in HBGary e-mails called Romas/COIN, that he didn't properly investigate and got wrong but which was helpful for me because I hadn't noticed it referenced previously and I was able to dig up more on my own, establish the known facts, and release a report on it me: Like, we were never friends. He was one of literally dozens of people with whom I communicated in the process of finding people who were interested in setting up new sorts of activist networks, which is what Project PM was working on originally back in 2010, before Tunisia began and I switched over everything to helping with that and other things me: So, I've sent you the two e-mails that he sent me and these other contacts of him that mention you. me: If I had any more details at all that would help you assess the nonsense he's been saying about you and anything else, I'd give them to you. me: Regarding these sarcastic remarks you keep making about "honor" and "Leiderman," again, I'm sorry that he's engaged in this stuff against you. I took the time to look at your post, see your position on this, and I think you're right, that it's without merit. me: But I am absolutely not getting involved in this, by "denouncing" Leiderman or anyone else. me: I'm already involved in a tremendous number of conflicts that have involved false information going to the FBI about me, at the worst, as well as threats made regarding my family members, mostly by some jackass security contractor types who consider me to be "fair game." There are people who use my name on IRCs to try to damage my reputation, and there's nothing I can do about it. I'm under surveillance not just by the FBI, but by private entities that get away with shit not limited to posting my actual address and pictures of where I live and tagging it with "Zetas." me: So, again, I have a lot on my plate already, and I know you do, too, but nothing I can do would help you, as Liederman doesn't owe me a single favor in the world. It would simply complicate my own life further. me: I'm telling you this because I feel like I have an obligation to explain honestly why I'm not going to be getting involved with any of these things. me: As for me "hating snitches," I can tell you that I am indeed very angry at Sabu, whose snitch career I'm very familiar with, and who actually encouraged a lot of people, including kids, to come to him with exploits against companies, and that sort of thing me: A lot of people have come into this whole thing for the wrong reasons, like adolescent stupidity, or a need for the approval of the "big hackers," and whatever else me: And Sabu, under FBI's direction, was taking all of this in a very nihilstic direction at a time when people like me were really trying to make something good out of what was there me: And I don't look at you as any sort of enemy just because you're a DA. I really try hard not to think like that, and to acknowledge that these things are complex, and not everyone on the "other side" is the bad guy, or someone to be depersonalized, etc. me: So, anyway, I have not and will not ask you to publicly attack McCain or anyone else on my account, for several reasons, including that it wouldn't help me, would complicate things for you. me: But please don't complain to me about Leiderman and then pretend that McCain trying to imply that I'm an FBI snitch is not dishonest, and not being intentionally done as retaliation against me for the several articles I wrote laying out the details of his involvement with white nationalist entities, etc