Patrick: When are they going to arrest you? me: I'm not charged with anything at this time me: and the "crimes" they're looking into are conspiracy-oriented, so I'd imagine any indictments would take a while Patrick: Hm Patrick: Well, I confess to being torn. I like you on several levels. I have always deplored any involvement with hacking. And I will be very frank with you, that some of the stuff I have seen on your Twitter feed has smacked of political terrorism. Knowing you to the extent I do, which is quite limited, I feel certain you feel justified. But then, don't most people? Patrick: Part of me hopes you come out of this OK Patrick: But that same part of me hopes that you also stop "doxing" people and such me: I try not to be one of the people who thinks that everything they do is justified me: I mean well Patrick: I honestly think you do mean well. Patrick: But then, again: so do most people me: and the "targets" have tended to be people who have done worsr Patrick: I know me: well, let's put it this way me: I went in to this knowing full well where I'd end up Patrick: But people have targeted me, and they claim to think I am a person who has done awful things Patrick: And they are wrong Patrick: So me: yeah, me too, and those people have guns and my tax dollars Patrick: You and I have shared political discussions about various things and you have seemed sincere Patrick: Frankly, for months, I have always assumed the FBI would be reading what I say to you. But I still talk to you because you have seemed like a decent person, and because I have been involved in nothing illicit myself, so why not talk to you? Patrick: I don't know what you have done and not done me: everyone talks to me, it's no cause to worry Patrick: I hope it has been stuff you can stand behind Patrick: I'm not worried Patrick: For me Patrick: I am, a little, for you me: some of the things I'm doing had to be done and no one else was going to do them Patrick: Hm me: a lot of it involves things that are going on in the intelligence community me: which I consider to be treason me: and which Congress has no oversight over Patrick: Do you think you will be indicted? I thought I read that you did. Why is that? Patrick: You don't have to answer that if you don't want Patrick: Totally up to you me: well, that's the pattern with these things Patrick: What's that? me: my apartment was raided and then my mom's house was raided me: they took laptops, cell phones, notes, etc Patrick: So they raid first and indict later? Patrick: I don't know how the feds operate, frankly me: that was the pattern with the Paypal thing, yes Patrick: OK me: 40 were raided, then 14 or so were indicted a few months later Patrick: I see Patrick: Have you ever felt like you were acting like a terrorist? I have seen stuff on your Twitter that didn't sound like you. It sounded awfully aggressive and overbearing Patrick: Threatening to publish private info on people and such Patrick: Again, I'm sure you felt justified. Just, from the outside, as someone who doesn't follow all the ins and outs, it seemed nasty. I figure you appreciate honesty so I am not sugar-coating here Patrick: I prefer not to sugar-coat stuff anyway, in general Patrick: Puts some people off, to be sure. But usually people appreciate it. If you're not among them I understand. I am not trying to be hostile, is my point. Just forthright me: I'm not offended, I understand your concern me: I would note two things Patrick: I wish I could think of specific examples Patrick: But you probably know what I mean generally Patrick: Go ahead me: the people that I've been "after" are all "combatants," in my view Patrick: Yeah, but people consider me a "combatant" me: you are a combatant Patrick: It's hard not to personalize this stuff when you have been a target yourself Patrick: OK Patrick: So there you go me: you are a district attorney and a participant in the political arena Patrick: In your view, I am fair game? Patrick: That's not what you're saying, is it? me: well, sort of, yes, but I also consider myself to have been fair game me: in a representative republic, the citizenry must be held to account me: whereas that is almost never the case Patrick: Did you ever come after me? me: no, why would I? Patrick: If you had, would you tell me? me: are you asking because of this Neal Reahauser thing? me: I don't like that guy me: he's perpetually sending me info I rarely want and that almost never has any relevance to my work Patrick: But you do seem very caught up with the whole HB Gary thing -- and he has been (falsely) trying to paint me as somehow involved with that me: I know he's in some sort of long e-battle with multiple people including yourself, but I still don't know the details other than that he got himself banned from Daily Kos me: which is incredible me: if he is, this is the first I've heard about it. Neal doesn't know shit about HBGary Patrick: What do you know if anything about Brett Kimberlin? me: don't know the name Patrick: Neal claims to have written the definitive report on HB Gary for Congress Patrick: Kimberlin was one of the targets of their whole proposed (but never executed) campaign of distortion me: what he actually did was write some argle-bargle that went to some Democratic staffer, is my interpretation me: but it's been a while. Patrick: Weirdly, I believe you. Maybe some day people will read this stuff aloud in court and mock me for saying so . . . Patrick: As they prosecute you for whatever Patrick: I still have no idea what Patrick: You just seem like an idealistic and quixotic guy Patrick: I wish I didn't see you being nasty to people, or what sure looks like nasty Patrick: And I hope you didn't break any laws Patrick: Because I always kind of liked you Patrick: I'd hate to see you going off to prison Patrick: Anyway, good luck to you -- at least, good luck if you didn't break any laws Patrick: If you did, well . . . I don't know what to say me: You too, let me know if I can ever be of service Patrick: Anything you want to say about your situation that hasn't been expressed? I'd be happy to report it me: Yes Patrick: OK... me: I hope that the American citizenry will start getting serious about its responsibilities towards the institutions that are created in its name, and what those institutions do in secret. Patrick: What do you mean specifically? I assume this is all on the record but correct me if there is anything you are saying to me privately. I don't burn people as a blogger me: And I hope that I can become a better person myself, too. me: There are quite a few things, but only one I won't talk about because I won't be believed Patrick: What institutions do you mean, and what are they doing? me: I mean the intelligence community as a whole Patrick: Tell me anything you want Patrick: Let people decide fort themselves if they want to believe it. Patrick: If you have something to say, you should at least consider saying it Patrick: Look me: I am going to say it, but not yet Patrick: I am a law and order guy -- but I am also suspicious of government secrecy Patrick: Let me find a post to prove that Patrick: Hang on me: not until there is widespread recognition of the demonstrably existent things that have been discovered in the past year me: your word is enough me: this wiki we created me: http://wiki.echelon2.org/wiki/Main_Page me: is listed on the search warrant Patrick: OK... me: along with Endgame Systems and HBGary as subjects to be investigated pursuant to these alleged crimes me: I truthfully do not know exactly what they think I did illegally in the course of it, but at any rate, just the things that were discovered in the HBGary e-mails and which have since been confirmed by CENTCOM, etc, like persona management, scare the shit out of me me: I didn't use to act like this me: but I'm very concerned about the lack of attention to this matter so far Patrick: Doesn Patrick: t Rauhauser talk about persona management? Patrick: I think he has a Scribd about it me: I don't know, he knows about it but I don't keep up with what he writes Patrick: And it had always been my impression he does it, and justifies it by saying, hey, HB Gary did it Patrick: So we're just using their tactics against them me: but people like Lt. Col. Anthony Schaffer of Able Danger have come out in support of my allegations regarding some of these things me: yeah, Reahauser will do that sort of shit, I won't touch it Patrick: Then he labels me as part of the "problem" and uses it against me me: anything involving disinformation Patrick: So you disavow anything involving disinformation? That is reassuring to hear Patrick: That is how I feel Patrick: The truth is paramount me: erasing people was the modus operandi of Nazis and Communists, creating fake people will be the modus operandi of the next dictatorships Patrick: We agree there Patrick: I did not like it when I heard Tom Ryan did it Patrick: And I know Neal has done it too me: yeah, Neal is not an honest person, he's just a Democratic apparatchick wannaba Patrick: Is he @AnonyOps? me: lol, no Patrick: I have never thought that, but others have said maybe so me: I've been telling you, Neal has zero influence within Anonymous me: I know who AnonyOps is Patrick: Ah Patrick: OK Patrick: I believe you Patrick: I never thought he was, myself Patrick: But look Patrick: You say Neal has no influence Patrick: But AnonyOps does RT a lot of Neal's shit me: you have to understand that no one likes Neal, I have very few dealings with him, etc me: does he? me: I haven't seen it me: I also don't think AnonyOps knows who Neal is Patrick: And seemingly takes his side in what I would consider obscure and totally false jihads against me and others I know Patrick: Absolutely he does me: they'll retweet anything they think i worthwhile Patrick: Well Patrick: AnonyOps has retweeted a lot of bullshit disinformation Neal has put out Patrick: Stuff accusing me of crimes and stupid shit like that Patrick: So look me: why don't you just press charges against Neal like the other guy did? Patrick: I do not try to get anyone to be my "personal army" me: he's being charged with harassment or some such Patrick: But I do find the constant RT by AnonyOps of Neal's shit odd Patrick: I generally think courts are a poor way to handle problems me: me too Patrick: If my hand is forced I can't rule it out Patrick: But it is not my inclination Patrick: Lawsuits are generally unsatisfactory Patrick: And, even as a member of law enforcement, I often think law enforcement does a poor job of pursuing crimes Patrick: If others want to go after Neal in court, that's their business. It would not be my preferred approach Patrick: My preferred approach would be to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they fall Patrick: Does that make sense? me: Yes, but I would strongly advise you to ignore all of those things to whatever extent that you can, as there's rarely anything to be gained from tangling with ridiculous people me: I know that leaving it be isn't perfect, because they're putting out lies about you, but responding doesn't seem to work Patrick: I have spent three months ignoring them and they still continue Patrick: So nothing works Patrick: I have not said one word about any of these people since December 9 me: Remember that I am constantly accused of being any number of things, including a CIA agent, and that this causes a great deal of harm to my recruitment abilities, etc me: but there's just no viable alternative me: at least, not one of which I'm aware Patrick: Neal's friend still constantly accuses me of crimes, incites Anonymous to hack me, and so forth Patrick: As does Neal me: except for cataloging the most vicious actions/comments by your enemies me: and then putting them up altogether every once in a while Patrick: Indeed Patrick: Well, as I say Patrick: Good luck to you, assuming you are not committing crimes, which I hope you are not Patrick: I honestly can't wish you good luck if you are Patrick: So let's just leave it at that, I guess... Patrick: Is any of this quotable? Patrick: I don't quite know what to make of it since you won't tell me what you're getting at Patrick: So I'm not sure what I would quote anyway Patrick: I wish you could explain to me me: let me ask you this Patrick: OK me: do you think that certain people within the sphere of our government are anything like me? Patrick: I'm not sure what you mean me: as in, can you see that there might be very eccentric people with big plans who have achieved positions of power? Patrick: Quixotic, odd, honest but eccentric? Patrick: I see Patrick: Sure Patrick: Maybe Patrick: And aligned with you? me: and that those people might see problems on the horizon that few others do, whether those problems be real or imagined? Patrick: Is that what you're saying? me: and that they might act on those things in a manner that the public would not approve of? Patrick: I guess, in the abstract? Patrick: I mean, it's hard to know what you're driving at Patrick: Are you saying you have buddies in government? me: no me: although I do, sort of, but that's not what this is about Patrick: Then I guess I don't follow. I'm slow sometimes. Forgive me me: it's my fault, I'm just trying to get a sense of what your worldview might be in terms of certain things and I'm asking the wrong questions, sort of me: let me ask you this Patrick: I'm willing to believe all kinds of bad things about people in government Patrick: If that's what you mean Patrick: But not on faith Patrick: I need evidence Patrick: But I don't have a mental block to believing stuff that is backed by evidence me: well, at any rate, the thing I prefer not to talk about isn't even that frightening in and of itself; what frightens me is that it's been carried out in such a way that the public and media does not touch it even though partner governments have actually acknowledged it on occasion me: and it's the reason I got out of "journalism" Patrick: You should just tell me Patrick: Look Patrick: If there is a story that should be told me: but I'm more concerned with these things that have already been proven, like persona management Patrick: And it is backed by evidence Patrick: I am willing to tell it Patrick: I am stubborn that way Patrick: And I am willing to tell it even if it hurts my side Patrick: Hopefully you understand that about me me: it wouldn't matter if you told it, nothing would come from it other than that you would be ridiculed me: the only way that this can get out in a way that matters is by coordinated action by a large number of journalists Patrick: If there is evidence to back it up, why would anyone be concerned about ridicule? me: including people such as myself who have established backgrounds in the skeptical community me: " If there is evidence to back it up, why would anyone be concerned about ridicule?" me: good question Patrick: Give me a hint me: if you're really interested, you can learn of it the same way I did Patrick: You should know by now I care about truth more than politics me: I'll put you in touch with a former exec at Booz Allen Hamilton Patrick: I won't break laws to learn about it me: you don't have to Patrick: OK Patrick: OK, but give me a hint what we're talking about me: we're talking about a large-scale program of atmospheric spraying that began in 1996 and which is carried out, it seems, in large part by Raytheon Patrick: CHEMTRAILS! me: that's the term I like to avoid me: because it already has baggage Patrick: I know me: but I looked into it me: and it's demonstrably the case me: the patents are there, Germany admitted to it two years ago, etc me: it's overseen by NATO, apparently Patrick: The funny thing is me: and is likely a dual-purpose sort of thing Patrick: This dude who has gone after Kimberlin me: but it does have obvious negative health consequences Patrick: Who Kimberlin sued Patrick: And Kimberlin was one of the HB Gary targets Patrick: He apparently espoused theories like this Patrick: For which he is roundly mocked by the Rauhauser crowd me: yeah, I would imagine Patrick: A paranoid person who thought you were working with Rauhauser Patrick: Might think me: anyway, Hughes Aircraft was purchased by Raytheon in the mid-90s after Hughes had secured several patents Patrick: You were trying to get me to go down the same path me: involving barium and aluminum particulate Patrick: So I would look like an idiot Patrick: But I'll listen me: that paranoid person would have to ignore that I have already put out the term "barium" on my Twitter feed several times Patrick: Why not? Patrick: ALL PART OF THE PLAN! me: and that I am not asking you to write anything about this Patrick: I understand me: and anyway, you won't Patrick: Why? Patrick: Because I would look crazy? me: that, and you probably don't believe it Patrick: Hey, I will look at evidence of anything me: well, the problem with looking into chemtrails or anything else of that nature Patrick: So what do I look at? Patrick: Yes? Patrick: It makes you seem crazy me: is that there's usually going to be a lot of actual crazy people who have already been all ove rit Patrick: That too me: so a reasonable person who first looks into it might find some interesting facts, but they'll also come across wacky extrapolations of the sort that convince many people that the facts must be wrong, too me: but anyway, it's not chemtrails I'm worried about Patrick: So why haven't you written about this? Aren't you sort of a journalist type guy, when you're not menacing enemies of Anonymous? me: because it won't work, yet Patrick: How come? me: I could write anything about it, put forth a great deal of evidence, and what would happen? me: doesn't matter that I used to have a column in Skeptical Inquirer Patrick: People laugh at you? me: and wrote for Skeptic, etc Patrick: You're a born again sucker me: people laugh at me anyway, but I only write for the purpose of having an effect Patrick: They would laugh harder? me: the point is that nothing would come of it Patrick: Why? me: for the same reason nothing came of it when the German government acknowledged their existence a couple years ago Patrick: Why don't you send me the link to that admission? me: because journalists and editors have no personal reason to pursue it and plenty of reason not to, namely, being relegated to the conspiracy ghetto Patrick: Ich kann nicht Deutsch lesen Patrick: So send me an English article Patrick: See I probably got those words out of order which shows you what I know Patrick: Which is nicht so viel Patrick: I would like to read the German government admission Patrick: Surely you have ein link me: nothing in English, one sec me: wait, maybe Patrick: Ja, derr ist das Kemmtraelen Patrick: I made that up totally Patrick: OK me: there's a German news report on YouTube but I hesitate to start with that without knowing who did the translation Patrick: If they don't talk too fast I can follow basic German me: although they do admit to spraying and do associate the spraying with geological engineering me: ok me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPqCMIuEk4 me: keep in mind that this particular link is really neither here nor there me: really you should start with this: http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf Patrick: She's mighty cute is about all I can discern with the fast talking me: anyway, there's no exact German translation to "chemtrails," I believe; all the gov't admitted to was a spraying program that seems to share the characteristics of the barium and aluminum particulate spraying that seems to have occurred largely in the U.S. and U.K. me: that other link is to early 90s USAF report that describes the same technology, among other things, although of course that's no smoking gun as all branches are supposed to propose wild ideas Patrick: I gotta go to bed, but if there's any other links you want to share, send them on Patrick: Not sure when I can get to them me: okay, good luck me: look into barium and aluminum particulate me: adios Patrick: Later me: word me: one last thing - both my grandfathers were USAF pilots in world war II, and we're not talking about chaff, which doesn't act like these particular emissions at all me: take it easy Patrick: You too