Re: First Entry

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Joe Carter <joe.p.carter@gmail.com> wrote:

***I'd like to talk about contemporary American politics as relates to Christianity of the most prominent styling, which is to say that which exhibits the emphases we see from the Family Research Council and other organizations and which is exhibited most plainly at the Liberty Sunday events.***

I'd have a hard time defending against that position because I don't think it's actual true. The influence of FRC (and even Focus on the Family) is rather trivial, especially compared to, say, the black churches. The religious right gets all the attention because it is aligned with the Democrats, but black churches have much more influence and power in America.

Also, the Liberty Sunday events were completely inconsequential. Before I worked for FRC I was invited to attend Liberty Sunday 2 and blog about it. I criticized it fairly harshly and even after I was hired I made it clear that I thought the events were, at best, worthless and, at worst, detrimental to the cause. Despite the criticism of me and others within the organization, FRC held one more LS event. After it failed too they stopped doing them.

Since the last one was almost five years ago, I'm not sure it would be of much interest to anyone anyway.

I also think your point about how FRC "cloaks its aims in the language of freedom while concerning itself almost entirely with the restriction of that freedom" is more a disagreement between conservatives and libertarians than it is Christians and atheists. As the old saying goes, conservatives believe that virtue is necessary for liberty while libertarians believe that liberty is the highest virtue. I know Christian libertarians and atheist conservatives, so I'm not sure if it would be fair to draw the distinction along those lines.

I think we should have a narrower topic, but I'm not sure if we can steer it back in way that would be related to the initial topic.

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> wrote:

Joe-

I put up your post and also responded a bit to the commenters who would prefer that one or both of us stake out a specific position, which sounds fine to me. I'd like to talk about contemporary American politics as relates to Christianity of the most prominent styling, which is to say that which exhibits the emphases we see from the Family Research Council and other organizations and which is exhibited most plainly at the Liberty Sunday events. As I note at the blog, I understand if you don't want to publicly debate the merits of the leadership of an organization you worked for, so perhaps we could decide on a more narrow topic that the two of us could agree on. I wouldn't get any particular pleasure from dragging someone like yourself through a discussion that I really mean to have with someone who's displayed more of the qualities with which I take particular issue. Let me know what you think.

http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2010/11/debate-constantine-and-theodosius/

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Joe Carter <joe.p.carter@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry I didn't get to it earlier. I got home later than I had planned.

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> wrote:

Great. Will link to this and hopefully have a response up tomorrow.

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 1:15 AM, Joe Carter <joe.p.carter@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, I've linked to all your posts and added my response: http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/11/07/the-nature-of-atheism-christianity-and-the-state-part-7/

(An HTML formatted version is also attached.)

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay, my opening argument is now up as well:

http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2010/11/debate-my-opening-argument/

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Joe Carter <joe.p.carter@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks. I'm out of town right now, but I'll post this and your opening tomorrow night.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> wrote:

I've responded to your extended remarks.

http://www.ordinary-gentlemen.com/2010/11/debate-response-to-joe-carters-extended-opening-argument/

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay, am writing my opening post today and will address your latest points.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Joe Carter <jcarter@firstthings.com> wrote:

I provided a follow-up (I kept this one much shorter): http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/11/04/the-nature-of-atheism-christianity-and-the-state-part-4/

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay, I've just pasted it and linked to it at The League and will respond paragraph-by-paragraph, followed by my opening argument.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Joe Carter <jcarter@firstthings.com> wrote:

Egad, I really mangled that one. It should be: "I think it is best to stop here and allow Mr. Brown to clarify what he considers to be unconditionally nondependent and how man relates to such an entity."

BTW, if you notice any typos or other minor errors please feel free to correct those.

Thanks,

-Joe

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> wrote:

I think you may have missed a word you intended to write in the last sentence, as I can't understand as it is.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Joe Carter <jcarter@firstthings.com> wrote:

Here's the first entry. Sorry it's a bit long-winded: http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/11/04/the-nature-of-atheism-christianity-and-the-state-part-2/

I've attached a copy formatted for WordPress in case its easier to to post from that.

Thanks,

-Joe

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Barrett Brown
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Barrett Brown
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Barrett Brown
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Barrett Brown
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Regards,

Barrett Brown
512-560-2302

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Regards,

Barrett Brown
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Regards,

Barrett Brown
512-560-2302

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Regards,

Barrett Brown
512-560-2302