Re: A delicate question
Subject: Re: A delicate question
From: Will Collins <williamf.collins@gmail.com>
Date: 10/21/10, 11:43
To: matthewschmitz@gmail.com
CC: David Schaengold <david.schaengold@gmail.com>, Erik Kain <erik.kain@gmail.com>, Mark Thompson <mwthompson88@yahoo.com>, Jason Kuznicki <JKuznicki@cato.org>, Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com>, "Scott H. Payne" <scott.h.payne@gmail.com>, "Rufus F." <rufus138@gmail.com>, Ned Resnikoff <nedresnikoff@gmail.com>, "lisakramer1979@aol.com" <lisakramer1979@aol.com>, "Davidaruggiero1973@gmail.com" <Davidaruggiero1973@gmail.com>, "awhaleyb@gmail.com" <awhaleyb@gmail.com>, "williamrandolphbrafford@gmail.com" <williamrandolphbrafford@gmail.com>, Logan Wall <jlwall88@gmail.com>

Bang out a post or two and all is forgiven.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:36 AM, <matthewschmitz@gmail.com> wrote:
When I emailed Rufus I suggested that we could do more than just delete the comment (I suggested we "at least" delete the comment.) In retrospect, I wouldn't have done that, and I take the blame for the post's disappearance.


On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, David Schaengold <david.schaengold@gmail.com> wrote:
We definitely shouldn't have deleted Rufus's post, in my view. The
unnecessarily personal stuff was out of bounds (and I think would have
been out of bounds even for a more public figure whom we're not on
friendly terms with), but those comments could have been deleted
without interfering with his legitimate questions about suffering.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Erik Kain <erik.kain@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh certainly. I'm on very good terms with Helen. It was all very much
> tongue-in-cheek.
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Mark Thompson <mwthompson88@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW, the "spat" with Helen was, as far as I know, almost entirely
>> tongue-in-cheek.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "matthewschmitz@gmail.com" <matthewschmitz@gmail.com>
>> To: Erik Kain <erik.kain@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Mark Thompson <mwthompson88@yahoo.com>; Will Collins
>> <williamf.collins@gmail.com>; Jason Kuznicki <JKuznicki@cato.org>; Barrett
>> Brown <barriticus@gmail.com>; David Schaengold <david.schaengold@gmail.com>;
>> Scott H. Payne <scott.h.payne@gmail.com>; Rufus F. <rufus138@gmail.com>; Ned
>> Resnikoff <nedresnikoff@gmail.com>; "lisakramer1979@aol.com"
>> <lisakramer1979@aol.com>; "Davidaruggiero1973@gmail.com"
>> <Davidaruggiero1973@gmail.com>; "awhaleyb@gmail.com" <awhaleyb@gmail.com>;
>> "williamrandolphbrafford@gmail.com" <williamrandolphbrafford@gmail.com>;
>> Logan Wall <jlwall88@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 11:02:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: A delicate question
>>
>> If only we were more a more prominent site, we'd have Sullivan and others
>> making wild conjectures and demanding explanations for Helen's vast and
>> undisclosed influence on the site. Hilarious considering our old spat with
>> her.
>>
>> Also, uh, sorry to drag you into this, Rufus.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Erik Kain <erik.kain@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In other words, there is no coordinated effort to do anything. I took
>>> down my post independently of any decision to remove the second post.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Erik Kain <erik.kain@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I definitely wouldn't have cut the second post entirely - it was my
>>>> understanding that there was simply a comment in the thread that was perhaps
>>>> over the line? I don't know as I did not read the comment thread. I deleted
>>>> my Helen post pretty quickly after it was written, and at the request of
>>>> Helen's friend Dara Lind who was trying to minimize damage to Helen's
>>>> career. Because I consider Dara to be a friend, I did gladly since it had
>>>> only been up a short time. The second post had been up quite a while...I
>>>> think it would have been okay to leave it up. Just my two cents.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Mark Thompson <mwthompson88@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I second Will.
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Will Collins <williamf.collins@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Jason Kuznicki <JKuznicki@cato.org>
>>>>> Cc: "matthewschmitz@gmail.com" <matthewschmitz@gmail.com>; Erik Kain
>>>>> <erik.kain@gmail.com>; Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com>; David
>>>>> Schaengold <david.schaengold@gmail.com>; Scott H. Payne
>>>>> <scott.h.payne@gmail.com>; Mark Thompson <mwthompson88@yahoo.com>; Rufus F.
>>>>> <rufus138@gmail.com>; Ned Resnikoff <nedresnikoff@gmail.com>;
>>>>> "lisakramer1979@aol.com" <lisakramer1979@aol.com>;
>>>>> "Davidaruggiero1973@gmail.com" <Davidaruggiero1973@gmail.com>;
>>>>> "awhaleyb@gmail.com" <awhaleyb@gmail.com>;
>>>>> "williamrandolphbrafford@gmail.com" <williamrandolphbrafford@gmail.com>;
>>>>> Logan Wall <jlwall88@gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 9:54:06 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: A delicate question
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a believer in comity, but two posts have just flat-out disappeared
>>>>> from the site in recent days. Can we stop doing that? For future reference,
>>>>> I'd prefer to delete the offending comments or add a note walking back any
>>>>> wrong-headed claims with the original post preserved below the fold.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Will
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Jason Kuznicki <JKuznicki@cato.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fair enough.  Let us be gentlemen even to those who court
>>>>>> ungentlemanly behavior.  Perhaps it will piss them off even more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: matthewschmitz@gmail.com [mailto:matthewschmitz@gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:12 AM
>>>>>> To: Jason Kuznicki
>>>>>> Cc: Erik Kain; Barrett Brown; David Schaengold; Scott H. Payne; Mark
>>>>>> Thompson; Rufus F.; Ned Resnikoff; Will Collins; lisakramer1979@aol.com;
>>>>>> Davidaruggiero1973@gmail.com; awhaleyb@gmail.com;
>>>>>> williamrandolphbrafford@gmail.com; Logan Wall
>>>>>> Subject: Re: A delicate question
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Jason,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the relevant email thread for context. Like I said to Rufus, I
>>>>>> really didn't desire to censor anything or step on anyone's toes. So
>>>>>> apologies if that's what ended up happening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -MJS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, I see where that post goes against the aim at gentlemanly
>>>>>> behavior. It's gone. Not a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:05 AM, <matthewschmitz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry again if this was out of line. I really don't mean to set myself
>>>>>> up as hall monitor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Rufus F. <rufus138@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure. Why not? I'll kill it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:49 PM, <matthewschmitz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rufus,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I by no means to step on a co-blogger's toes. So please forgive what
>>>>>> follows if I'm out of line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you think it might be worth deleting at least that one comment that
>>>>>> could be read as indirectly musing on Ms. Rittelmeyer's sex life? I fear
>>>>>> we're playing into the hands of Mr. Seavey. I've never met Helen or him, and
>>>>>> I'm not trying to make a chivalric gesture. But I thought you might want to
>>>>>> see that her friend had already reached out to Erik, an indication that this
>>>>>> situation is bringing a kind of scrutiny that is unwelcome even to a girl as
>>>>>> thick-skinned as Helen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts? (Again, sorry...)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>> From: Erik Kain <erik.kain@gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:31 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>>> To: matthewschmitz@gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Definitely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:10 AM, <matthewschmitz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds good. I have to say that I really respect Helen's calm
>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Erik Kain <erik.kain@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dara Lind asked me to kill it, to let the story on Helen die out of
>>>>>> respect for her - which I gladly did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:31 PM, <matthewschmitz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Erik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems your post on Helen disappeared. Any reason or is it a glitch?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -MS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Rufus F.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Rufus F.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Jason Kuznicki <JKuznicki@cato.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are we deliberately pulling punches on the Helen Rittlemeyer thingy?
>>>>>> I know the thread didn’t bring out my
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  kindest or most gentlemanly instincts.  But I did think that some of
>>>>>> the points it raised were valuable, including (if I may say so) the idea
>>>>>> that creating extra suffering was satanic rather than Christian.  The Fall
>>>>>> being bad enough, as I’m given to understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>