Subject: Chat with Scott, Clark, dynamicuno@gmail.com
From: Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com>
To: barriticus@gmail.com
Scott: You've been invited to this chat room! me: okay, grab Clark if you would me: thanks Scott: does anyone know if todd is joining us? me: Essig? Scott: yes, and sorry, tim me: I haven't heard from him me: so I've just sent an e-mail to Felipe Farley asking if he's ready to help us with the Africa Project Scott: ellis, sorr Scott: my mind isn't here right now Scott: ok great me: wanted to hear from him before contacting the others we have down so we know what we can emphasize me: also me: I'm going to be coming up to New York for a few days in about a month or less Scott: excellent me: I need to figure out if/who I should meet with while I'm there Scott: old stomping grounds? me: sort of, I'm coming up on business me: which brings me to me: I'm now working with a fellow named Steve Bargo, who's a rich investment banker fellow who's running a real estate fund and an energy fund as well me: he's having me speak as him through e-mail and help to write up materials for the various deals he's working on me: he also wants me to come with him to various investor meetings, hence NEw York trip Scott: quite interesting Scott: are his fund names pubic info.? me: will be going to California as well pretty soon, where I'll meet with Robert Green as well me: yeah me: Excellere is his firm me: Excellere Capital Group me: under which is the Global Opportunities Equity Properties Fund me: and an oil and gas fund that's not yet been announced Scott: if you want, not saying you'd care, i can try to look up his performance me: I already have me: he's pretty impressive Scott: i'm taking a look at his website now Scott: very cool me: at any rate, he's already rich, but just likes putting deals together Scott: also quite funny, in a good way, that he has you writing his pitches me: yeah, I know me: basically, I'll be acting as him in correspondence with various contacts he me: he's made over the years Scott: cool Scott: he's into philanthropy, which is a nice benefit me: anyway, this will provide other, related opportunities for us me: I expect to generate some money pretty soon between that and something else I'm putting together down here with the Lou Reese fellow I mentioned me: fairly soon Scott: good stuff me: so I'll be able to get a couple of things going, like hiring a programmer and also perhaps someone to serve as a full-time assistant me: meanwhile, Green and I are set to talk more about the web show me: we just turned in a script I wrote to Ferrell and McKay me: should hear back from them soon Scott: the anti-pundit series? me: hopefully I can impress them enough to spark their interest Scott: ok so things are financing fronts are coming together Scott: are = on me: no, these are just random scripts, we've been planning the anti-pundit series in the meantime and will move on that soon Scott: ok me: I saw your e-mail regarding website content me: I think that should pretty much cover what we need to begin with (and what we can get from Natalie the web designer) me: I'll go ahead and get back with her on that tonight and see what she says Scott: yea, i figured it was simple yet sufficient Scott: how did the enwsletter feedback go? me: I've only gotten one e-mail back thus far me: so I'm going to just send individual e-mails to everyone I want now for projects Scott: also, with regards to that, depending on when we can get the website up and running, i think future newsletters while sent from your email address should request responses to go to a universal PM email address to this way if and when we transition it's more seemless and spam filters will be less of an issue Scott: one is certainly better htan nothing Scott: than me: and will try to produce something that will get people to be involved, perhaps by introducing whatever we end up making in terms of a communicational/collaborational apparatus using google docs me: speaking of which, did either of you think of anything in terms of how we could go that route in the short term? Scott: yes, clark mentioned google wiki (whatever it was called) which i have not given enough thought/review Clark: my conclusion about google docs was that it was not adaptable to an effective collaborative tool, alas. Scott: concur with clark me: I haven't looked much into google wiki either but a wiki does sound like the best solution Scott: i prefer chat for finalization, emails for discussion, google docs for tasks, and newsletters for expression of results me: especially with the linking and whatnot me: you mean, as opposed to a wiki, or supplementing it? Scott: i don't know because i've never actually partook in the anticipated wiki Scott: it's possible that encompasses most if not all, but as of now, that's my preferred methods Scott: also, while having a universal gmail account i.e. project.pm.information sounded like a good idea, i imagine the fact remains that no one actually will log on to check it me: At the very least it would be a good way of presenting materials, including my relevant essays, discussions we'd like to make public, definitions, open questions we'd like answered, etc Scott: therefore, it still may be best to have a mailing list email address Clark: Google Sites has a variety of templates, recommend browsing those, see if any meet the needs of Project PM, number one of which was automated organization, followed by date and author tracking, Scott: i concur with both, but until we put it into action it's hard to evaluate Clark: incidental note: when employing the mailing list, use one of your own e-mail addresses as the primary addressee, then all the other recipients go in BCC Scott: second that on clark Scott: noticed the to, to someone who i can't remember now Clark: gina, hope she wasn't trying to be on the DL me: gotcha Scott: if we get some funding esker on demand allows mass mailing (BCC) from any address with tracking of who read the email me: I really do think a wiki should be a priority, as I'm confident we could establish a pretty good, coherent system with that Scott: ok so let's make that a task Clark: deliver tracking and read tracking are very useful, great me: I'm thinking me: off the bat me: that, say, the Africa Project me: would be discussed by participants on the talk page me: and as they develop and retool the manifestation of the project, they would add and change it on the page in question me: this way all discussion is available, and the final product in terms of plans and whatnot is constantly revised and easily available Scott: How would we make all discussion still available? me: the talk page serves as an archive Scott: ahhh me: and the tracking page shows all revisions that have made and by who and when Clark: not sure what you refer to, as talk page Scott: is this for a straight up wiki or some google thing? me: like this me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peter_I_of_Russia Clark: ok, thankis Clark: thanks Scott: does anyone have access to edit this? me: yeah me: as if there's a problem with people just coming along and editing it, we can revert changes me: but we're not going to run into that Scott: and who makes the final decisions on what does and does not make it? me: this would be handled by consensus at first me: which I think is attainable with the people we'll be using me: we can develop a more formal system as we watch everything develop Scott: ok i think that's a good approach/start Scott: why don't we have 3 tasks Scott: one: contact web designer and confirm she's okay with those demand, if so we start writing up blurbs to discuss Scott: two: create a wiki for project PM, the aforementioned blurbs will be useful visa versa in coming up with content for the wiki me: already added first to task list Scott: three: we try to migrate our weekly meetings into the google site clark linked to Scott: thanks, see it now :) Clark: probably should start a new one from scratch Clark: i dont remember how i set up who controls that one, i was just playing with the template to understand it Scott: that's fine, is it not possible to reset the current one? Scott: ok, this week i'll try messing around with it unless clark you want to Clark: probably we should both do so Scott: ok Clark: if you create stray wikis, thats ok Scott: do you want to work on one together, separately and then combine? either way is fine with me Clark: why dont you browse the templates, start one, then bring me in, and we can develop or abandon it and start a new one that we like better Scott: that works Scott: do you think tim is efficient/knowledgeable with wikis? Clark: i dont knwo Clark: know Scott: i was hoping if he is that he'd be willing to undertake the task of starting a Project PM wikipedia page. I'm sure a lot of it he can pull from Barrett's newsletter. Clark: thats an interesting idea Scott: I have no problem contacting him and asking, unless either of you feel you have a good rapport and rather ask. Clark: you're probably the best advocate of your own ideas, so makes sense for you to raise it with him Scott: ok Scott: will do Clark: this go-round, need to continuously be thinking about anonymity vs disclosed participant IDs, unplanned handling of that turned out to be a problem last time Scott: that's true, i'm sure it's controllable with the google site for weekly meeting people Scott: however, the wiki site, will likely list the moniker of the person who edits, etc. me: also me: I think we should bring in yet another person for the meetings me: since on an average week one or two probably won't make it Scott: that's an excellent point me: and I think four or five or more meeting would be efficient anyway Clark: agree me: any suggestions? Scott: i defer Scott: i'd say our top to choices should be someone who either (a) has a lot to add in terms of diverse views or (b) is extremely organized Scott: since we seem to be lacking in the latter Scott: combination would be great! Clark: barrett probably has best sense of various people's qualities from talking to them on the phone me: I'm going to ask Charles Johnson to join us when he can me: it's time to get him more involved anyway me: I'll pick another from the list me: but let me know if you think of anyone Scott: dual purposed on charles as he may well be our programmer? Scott: i'll trust barrett's decisions as well Scott: tim just signed up for a second then left Clark: ellen johnson, made a good impression on me somehow me: she's very dedicated me: but not a nimble operator me: we probably want to stay away from professional atheists in general me: in terms of having them contribute to the "mainframe" Scott: what is a professional atheist? me: atheist activist, etc. Scott: ah Scott: tim may be joining us in a moment me: yeah, just saw that e-mail Scott: tim to recap we have a few things in the work Clark: hi tim dynamicuno@gmail.com: Hi all dynamicuno@gmail.com: Ok Scott: barrett is full throttle on making financial beneficial connections Scott: he's likely going to be contacting charles johnson and someone else to add to our weekly meetings to add diversity and take into consideration not everyone will be able to talk weekly Scott: barrett's also going to contact web develop and confirm that she'll be able to meet our requests without difficulty dynamicuno@gmail.com: Alright, that's a good idea. Johnson is a very good potential addition. Scott: clark and I plan on working with google sites to hopefully set up a beta system for us to communicate more efficiently which may have larger applications down the road Scott: i was hoping if you have time and technical know how, that you could set up a wikipedia page for Project PM (i'm sure you can grab a lot of info. from emails and barrett's newsletter) dynamicuno@gmail.com: I have enough Wiki know-how to do that. Are you talking about Wikipedia itself, or the Planning Wiki? dynamicuno@gmail.com: In my experience, Wikipedia editors will simply delete articles that describe organizations that they don't feel are well known enough for inclusion, so we may get wiped. Scott: clark and i were going to work on the planning wiki but feel free to contribute as well dynamicuno@gmail.com: Since they won't know who we are yet me: our own wiki, not wikipedia dynamicuno@gmail.com: Right ok Scott: sorry about that tim, my fault, i had it wrong dynamicuno@gmail.com: No worries dynamicuno@gmail.com: Yes I can work on that with you guys Scott: what's the different between a project pm wiki site and our own wiki? Scott: difference Clark: the existing "planning wiki" may not be the best template to start with, it was just the one that sounded most likely when i was exploring Google Sites' pre-formulated templates for the first time, we may want to start from scratch dynamicuno@gmail.com: Alright dynamicuno@gmail.com: So we're looking at a wiki-style site to take public either sooner or later in development then? Scott: I sorry but I'm confused, is our own wiki site and the google planning wiki the same thing or two separate thing? Clark: this is distinct from the 'free web page' that is in the works, yes? me: yes Scott: is barrett's yes to me, or to clark? Scott: or both me: to clark me: we've got a website coming to us that we'll use for the basic features you listed and then a wiki me: which, among other things, is what project participants will use for collaboration me: and will also serve as well-organized compendium of relevant information Clark: website for public, wiki for PM member/participants Scott: ok i hate to sound like a re-tard Scott: but the wiki that barrett linked to in terms of "talk" is not the same wiki that is now being discussed in terms of the google site's project PM wiki Clark: that was just to show me what a talk page was Scott: ok so that's intended for in the future when we have a larger presence and the powers that be at wikipedia won't delete our pages Clark: i do not know if google sites' wiki templates provide for talk pages me: no, we're setting up our own wiki on similar software me: it won't be connected to wikipedia me: at some point someone will probably make a page on us, but we don't have to think about that now me: Clark: If they don't, I'll find out what other wiki software is available dynamicuno@gmail.com: There's a variety available; I'm searching through them now Scott: ok i guess that's something we'll have to find out, but that's a concern i share, which is why i thought we were actually going to do a wikipedia page (thank you for the clarification all) Clark: advantage of google sites is they also provide hosting for the wiki me: ah me: well, we'll see what they have in terms of features me: I'm sure they'll have something akin to a talk page dynamicuno@gmail.com: I'm fairly sure they will dynamicuno@gmail.com: I'll investigate that Scott: phew, i'm clear now just like setlzer Scott: ok so the task is to work on google site wiki Scott: also task is to start creating blurbs for website Scott: tim if you're confident in your wiki abilities, as you seem to be, i'll lean less towards that and more towards creating blurbs which we can change/edit later dynamicuno@gmail.com: Well, I'm confident I can learn what is needed; I've used a number of wikis and I am fairly active editing Wikipedia so I'm sure I can pick it up quickly Clark: barrett, ask the free website lady if the site can be www.barrettbrown.com me: okay, we already own that Scott: :) Scott: not to put down barrett and his awesomeness, and I recognize the fact that barrett is the only reason this is starting to come to fruition, but shouldn't the website be more oriented to project PM as barrett's goal is to eventually have it run independtly? me: did we ever figure out if a url like ProjectPM is available? me: I remember us looking into it me: ProjectPM.org, maybe? Scott: i believe projectpm was taken by some organization Clark: it seemed to belong to a chamber of commerce in a small town in texas me: oh, right me: well, what should we do? me: Scott is right about it needing to be PM-oriented me: and recognizable as such dynamicuno@gmail.com: Project-PM dynamicuno@gmail.com: or ProjectPM.Info me: second one might wor me: k dynamicuno@gmail.com: ProjectPM.org claims to be available right now Clark: i disagree, in order to provide the leadership needed, barrett needs a more effective web presence Scott: is org taken? dynamicuno@gmail.com: ProjectPM.net is also available dynamicuno@gmail.com: Hmmm Scott: ok the nets and org won't change in a day Scott: let's talk about projectpm vs. barrett dynamicuno@gmail.com: Clark, I see your point but I am not sure I agree. Part of the appeal of Project PM (and the internet) is the decentralization of authority Scott: i guess here's where more voices would be helpful dynamicuno@gmail.com: and our goal is to maintain quality while also accepting that decentralization dynamicuno@gmail.com: Well, one of our goals Clark: my experience in the early days of this was that participants would be responsive to Barrett but not to me Clark: i think the charismatic effects of his advocacy drove much of the interest in it dynamicuno@gmail.com: I'm sure that's the case actually. But I think we can aim to take advantage of that without making it central to our premise me: I think that it would be best to slowly disassociate me from leadership, both in perception and in practice me: otherwise, the organization becomes tied too closely to one person Scott: Clark I understand your point which is why Barrett will still be the one PUSHING project PM in newsletters and online postings me: and could suffer to any extent that I screw up my public persona Scott: however, the goal of PPM is to be not one man and to create its own identity me: yeah Scott: if keep it under the umbrella of barrett then while those who are strong followers will be loyal to the project, we inhibit its growth Scott: if that makes sense, i'm not very articulate, sorry dynamicuno@gmail.com: We could purchase BarrettBrown.com and connect it to ProjectPM.Org or what have you dynamicuno@gmail.com: then people who type that site in go direct through Scott: i think they should be two separate things Scott: IMHO me: there are also more prominent people I'm aiming to recruit who should probably be heavily associated with PM as well Scott: let barrett and his popularity grow separate from PPM while the two entities receive mutual benefit Scott: that's also a good point that I didn't think about directly dynamicuno@gmail.com: What do you think, Clark? Clark: i am unpersuaded, i do not think that Project PM is sufficiently defined to recommend itself to people apart from the idealism and apparent integrity manifest in Barrett's writings Scott: I understand me: BarrettBrown.com could fulfill that purpose Scott: I think it's important to mention that at this point in time anyone being pointed to the website is being done so by barrett providing instant credence. me: as a separate site, with info on PM and of course a link to both PM site and wiki Scott: that's a happy compromise Scott: so we have two sites Scott: would the developer be willing to undertake two? dynamicuno@gmail.com: This is somewhat tangential, but there is a person in Rochester who runs a "Social Media School" who has made it his life's work to understand social media networking. He may be an asset to us and we're the sort of project he'd be interested in. dynamicuno@gmail.com: Should I talk to him? me: absolutely, Tim dynamicuno@gmail.com: Alright, I'll shoot him a message Scott: ok i just looked it up, to simply get the projectpm domain name it's $12/year Scott: correctoin Scott: that's wrong Scott: please hold Scott: i thought domain names were cheap!!! Scott: godaddy Scott: apparently depending on the ending i.e. .org .info changes the price dynamicuno@gmail.com: 1and1 is pretty good; Register.com offers all of the variations at 35$ each dynamicuno@gmail.com: I can check 1and1 dynamicuno@gmail.com: My tech-savvy friends all seem to use that one Scott: godaddy is offering .org for $15 Scott: compared to networksolutions at $35 Scott: plus if you go to http://www.retailmenot.com/view/godaddy.com Scott: there are a bunch of coupons you can use with godaddy dynamicuno@gmail.com: 1and1 claims to be free registration; I'm looking for what the catch is now lol Scott: barrett you there? me: yep Scott: i recognize clark's concerns and we can discuss them, but i believe it would be wise to at least register some projectpm name as a stop-gap measure Scott: i have no idea if stop-gap is the right phrase to use btw but it sounded nice in my head me: absolutely Scott: ok do you want one of us to purchase it, it is something you want to do in the short-term? Scott: as a reminder, my feelings are that once the org gets capital, people should be reimbursed for money they personally contributed if they so choose to want reimbursement Scott: but that's just my feelings Clark: wondering if we have the human resources to put up and maintain two websites & a wiki? me: we'll start with the wiki me: and the website will be done for us, we'll make sure it doesn't require much upkeep on our end me: the wiki will large be driven by our participants with our monitoring Scott: i think the website will be more start-up than maintenance Scott: Barrett, do you want me to task you with purchasing domain name? me: yeah Scott: ok, did you see the above stuff about godaddy and 1and1 potentially being the cheapest? me: yeah, I'll look into that first Scott: ok Scott: ok tasks have been inputted me: very well, guess we're done for today dynamicuno@gmail.com: Alright dynamicuno@gmail.com: I'm making a CD this week so I won't get too much done on the wiki until next week dynamicuno@gmail.com: Is that ok? I don't want to cause us to fall behind Clark: I think it is OK me: no problem Scott: yea me: thanks again for doing that for us Scott: ok next week, 7:30PM? dynamicuno@gmail.com: No problem. I'll also talk to Craig about social media work Scott: EST dynamicuno@gmail.com: He may actually be able to contribute a lot towards the wiki Clark: or is it EDT dynamicuno@gmail.com: EST for now dynamicuno@gmail.com: er dynamicuno@gmail.com: yeah dynamicuno@gmail.com: EST dynamicuno@gmail.com: I'm 85% sure Scott: I have no clue Clark: ok, new york time dynamicuno@gmail.com: If only there was some large database of information we could access remotely dynamicuno@gmail.com: maybe with a search function dynamicuno@gmail.com: Oh well Scott: GMT - 5:00 Scott: 7:30PM GMT - 5:00 dynamicuno@gmail.com: lol dynamicuno@gmail.com: I'll be sure to be here at 7:30 PM -5:00 GMT Scott: ok thanks again all Clark: good night me: thanks, adios dynamicuno@gmail.com: Good night all