| Subject: Chat with Scott, Clark |
| From: Barrett Brown <barriticus@gmail.com> |
In the chat room: Scott Mintz (scott.w.mintz@gmail.com), Clark Robinson (robinsonchicago@gmail.com)
6:01 PM Scott: You've been invited to this chat room!
Clark: here i am
me: Howdy
Scott: hey
Anyone want to start?
me: Yeah
6:02 PM So, the main thing that would help to keep things moving
would be for me to be more organized so that I can react in a more timely fashion to everything
6:03 PM and I think the best way to do that, as I mentioned to Scott, would be to have that recently joined woman or perhaps someone else help to keep me focused on a day-to-day basis on what needs to be done
and that could be accomplished
6:04 PM by having you guys cc her or whoever we pick for that role in all e-mails to me, etc.
and also to share a Google doc with me
6:05 PM we could get someone else pretty easily to do this, but I gather that she would make a good candidate?
Scott: I don't know anything about her more than any one else.
Clark: who are we talking about?
Scott: You talking about Kari?
me: Yes, that's it
6:06 PM Anyway, I need to have deadlines
6:07 PM I have more than enough time to handle things myself even with my other projects but, again, I need help being reminded what needs to be done first and also some oversight
Clark: i had sort of hoped she would pick up the newsletter and do some stuff, but i have not heard from her; however, i assumed she would be more reactive to Barrett than to me--have you heard from her lately?
me: I haven't yet talked to her, I've been writing up the newsletter today and was going to reach out to her
this weekend
Scott: Do either you know if this is a task Kari is willing to take on?
me: but wanted to ask you first
6:08 PM no, I would ask her, though Clark has talked to her a bit about her potential role
Clark: i have not had enough interaction with her to get a vibe, pardon the expression
Scott: I certainly don't see anything wrong with the idea.
me: expression pardoned
now, having said all of that
perhaps it be more effective and simpler to simply have a google document between the three of us
6:09 PM Clark: i think we need to expand the inner circle
me: yeah, we probably should
Scott: Both ideas are good with me.
me: let's talk about that next
Scott: One thing that I think would help is if we have planned Gchats or what you will, where there are scheduled topics for discussion.
This way there is a call to action to get certain things done.
me: meantime, if I were to create a doc to serve as a sort of agenda sheet, something I could look at every morning to see what I should be doing, could you help me to maintain it?
6:10 PM Yes, we should do that, too
Basically, going back, either of you could basically just tell me what to do
Scott: Yea I have no problem with maintaining an agenda sheet.
me: Not really in a clerical sense or even to remind me, but rather just to get me to do it
Okay, great
6:11 PM I'm thinking it could be divided into two sections
short-term and long-term goals
With a date of completion associated for all of the short terms goals
Scott: yea that's fine
6:12 PM I can probably put together some sort of spreadsheet
me: such a thing could be integrated into a sort of makeshift system also including weekly or bi-weekly chats like Scott mentioned
and we would discuss one of the long-term goals on gchat on some sort of schedule, if that's clear
6:14 PM Scott: I'm throwing something together as we speak (excel spreadsheet)
me: great
and I think that as we do this, we will also get insight into how the organization itself could be organized
even before such time as we have software
Scott: If we're going to proceed with this, should kari still be contacted for a secretarial type role?
6:15 PM me: let's try this out first and see if it is sufficient, I'll wait on talking to Kari until I'm closer to finishing the newsletter and then see what my needs are in terms of regular assistance, if any
Scott: fair
6:16 PM me: the secretarial thing was just my first idea and this second one really just occurred to me today
now, on a related subject
Scott, you saw the e-mail list I forwarded you, the journalism/sci project?
Scott: yes
6:17 PM me: based on having seen that, do you think that e-mail lists are the way to go for now in terms of getting groups working, or should we consider ways in which to go back to Google Docs, perhaps with some more formal schematic than last time?
6:18 PM Scott: I do like the idea of using a Google Doc to update an agenda
but and maybe this is just me, I find email still to be the best way of communicating.
me: It's definitely better in terms of alerting people to the fact that someone has weighed in since it goes to a mail box
6:19 PM Scott: I also didn't found much "exchanging" of thoughts when we were using the shared Docs.
Clark: not just you, i feel same way, but it is not accomplish group involvement
6:20 PM it = email
me: Perhaps we could integrate the two without making it too cumbersome?
Perhaps I could just paste the responses into a google doc?
6:21 PM Scott: We certainly can try that.
me: Keeping in mind the example of the sci-journ e-mail list...
6:22 PM ... would it be good to establish some method whereby everyone could read the contents
and then submit their own ideas or comments and us present them to the original group if we think they have merit?
6:23 PM Scott: I guess one that can be done is a simplification of the emails (content the same) but remove headers, for example.
6:24 PM So the document would read as follows:
Scott: This
me: right
Scott: Clark: That
etc.
and we could simply add to it chronologically
6:25 PM Clark: does sharing of Google docs have same problem that the website had, everybody can see each other's user name, and, worse, e-mail address? so we get same problems with associations being assumed that are not warranted?
me: We wouldn't include e-mail addresses
Scott: let me see something
me: as for names
Scott: I do think we can see other people's names
6:26 PM I guess it depends on the individual
but int he shared docs when I click on permissions I see people's names
some are identifiable while others are not i.e. mirnahariz
6:27 PM elljhns8
6:28 PM me: Okay, let's table the question of how to integrate the lists into google docs for just now and come back to it at our next chat
compare notes, etc.
Scott: ok hold on, adding this to spreadsheet
me: Okay, thanks
6:29 PM Scott: the task is "way to succinctly publish content of emails without identifying readers"
any objections?
me: nope
6:30 PM wait
let me make sure I understand that particular problem
we're trying to avoid identifying those who read it?
6:31 PM Scott: i assumed so based on Clark's note about the association problem he mentioned with the blog
clark?
me: perhaps he meant that the blog was viewable by anyone?
6:32 PM this would be only viewable to those participants who ask for permission to view
Clark: jeremy sapienza, I concluded, is correct, that the way we were proceding created risks, esp to barrett
me: and potentially have a space where they could comment on the proceedings
6:33 PM Clark: as i understand it, the way Google responds to a website being attacked is to lock the website and simultaneously the G-mail account of the site's owners
would fuck Barrett up royally
Scott: lol
Clark: since he keeps his work in their cloud
6:34 PM Scott: ok so there is no problem/objection with all persons who have access to the shared doc making it public to only those persons that they are permitted to view it?
6:35 PM me: I would think not
We would have to ask permission of those in the list to display content to chosen participants with their names attached
I would imagine that probably wouldn't be a problem
6:36 PM Scott: i have a thought about this
me: ok
6:37 PM Scott: assuming no problems with what we just said, then let's proceed with creating a document available to anyone interest that documents email exchange between the science/journalism committee
this way all info. is public
we should have an email address i.e. projectpmscijournal
6:38 PM if someone has a comment, something to add, and/or would like to be considered for inclusion in the email exchanges then they email that address
that address could automatically forward to certain people for review
6:40 PM Clark: i think there a couple of levels of sharing, one level ("can edit") can allow the sharee to further share it, but the other level can not--check to see it that is codrrect
me: ok, that sounds good, let's have that be our working plan and confirm it at next chat
I believe that is the case
6:41 PM Scott: yes, there seems to be "can edit" and "can view"
so then we agree that most people will be "can view" and the persons responsible for updating the document will be the can edit.
6:42 PM Clark: yes
Scott: ok I will create a doc for the email barrett forwarded to me
6:43 PM me: great, thanks
another thing
I've been talking to Barry Eisler, the former CIA agent and novelist
6:44 PM he's agreed to get in touch with someone for us whom I believe would be of great help to us, particularly in terms of finalizing the software schematic but also in terms of figuring out all manner of communication processes
6:45 PM this is Neal Stephenson
among other things, he's the author of a book called The Cryptonomicon
which I recommend to both of you, incidentally
Stephenson, it seems, has addressed a number of the concepts that we are working with
Clark: yes i will get a copy when i am in chicago, probably this week
me: generally in fiction
6:46 PM Scott: will take a look
that's great news
me: basically, we're doing something that parallels a regular theme in his books
so I'll get that message to him this week
Clark: 1000 pages, what page you on now Barrett?
6:47 PM me: which brings us back to the issue of expanding the inner circle
400 or so, I think
Is there anyone among our existing participants who would be good candidates for joining us?
6:48 PM Scott: just wiki, sounds like an interesting book
i defer to the two of you as I don't know anyone else
6:49 PM me: On paper, there are a couple of people who look qualified, such as Gina Acosta (whom I'm attaching to the sci/journ list this weekend)
but having said that
I think it's best to recruit people based on sharing certain interests with us in terms of the internet, information flow, etc.
6:50 PM Clark: when i was taking down the workshop blog, dyanmicuno and (as I recollect) TS had draft versions of contributions to the blog, but I did not read them since I thought that would be an unwarranted intrusion since they may not have been aware that I could do so, but the point being that may indicate interest
Scott: I think passion should be highly considered.
We have a lot of smart people but not a lot of interactions.
6:51 PM I believe Clark is correct.
me: Well, one problem is that I haven't really given many people much chance to display passion
6:52 PM Perhaps we could evaluate potential new top-level members by having them propose an answer to some question before us
Scott: I like that idea.
Kind of like an interview.
me: Do we know anything about dynamicuno?
6:53 PM Clark: he is Tim Ellis
upstate NY
me: also, should such a question be inserted into the newsletter with an invitation to answer it for those who feel that they can do so?
oh, he's definitely shown interest
Clark: runs raves in Toronto
writes for HuffPo
me: he e-mailed me recently, I told him I'd get back to him
Scott: club raves?
me: he would actually be a great candidate
Scott: ok so Tim sound like a good candidtae
6:54 PM we should also include something in the newsletter
me: yeah
Clark: I am not knowledgeable about raves, so there is more than one kind?
me: having said that, what question would serve as both an indicator of aptitude and also be one that we could really use some input on?
6:55 PM sort of, it's a bit amorphous
there are illegal raves held in fields and whatnot
or rather there used to be a lot of them
Scott: raves remind me of people other than myself who in high school went to clubs in the city and rolled on exctasy
me: well, I'm from Dallas
6:56 PM which was where ecstasy and raves originated
glad that's over
Scott: I'm not sure this question is ideal but certainly one that we've debated ourselves is what is the best form of communication in order to exchange ideas.
Dallas was the hometown to both?
interesante
6:57 PM me: Perhaps something more specific but in that vein, such as how would one integrate an e-mail list and google docs?
or, better yet
6:58 PM what sort of system would one devise in order to use multiple google docs in such a way as to facilitate organized corraboration?
Scott: that's a tough one
6:59 PM me: it's actually one of the things I'd like us to think about in the coming weeks
as even when we have software, such a system could inform how it is set up
7:00 PM basically, you have a great number of people and documentd
documents
Clark: Barrett, if you do not live too far from Kari, buy her a drink and see what she is interested in (but do not use any form of the word 'secretary') , she did seem to be motivated, but volunteers often want to define the experience for themselves, not fill a predefined need
me: how best to set up a system by which to take good advantage of both
oh, I wouldn't use the term secretary
I'll e-mail her now
Scott: concur with clark
7:02 PM me: Clark, have you spoken at all to Kari since you e-mailed her on June 27th?
Clark: my own perception of what drives Project PM is Barrett's writing; so now that it is to be found in diverse places, it might be useful to continuously communicate where to read Barrett's latest online publication
7:03 PM no
Scott: I've added to the spreadsheet the following task: include in newsletter inner circle request/question and have noted the question barrett proposed
me: okay, just wanted to make sure that I had all correspondence
Scott: wait
Clark: hang on, I will check
Scott: didn't clark email her recently?
7:04 PM I have clark emailing her august 13th about a post she made on the blog
me: ah, anyone know what she'd posted on?
Scott: unfortunately I do not
7:05 PM but I did just come across her twitter
and blog
me: url for her blog, please?
Scott: closed accidently
i have many links
me: I'll find it
7:06 PM Scott: http://www.karibunch.com/index.html
Clark: August 16 was last thing i sent her, copied to barrett and scott
Scott: http://twitter.com/havoth
http://havothsthoughts.blogspot.com/
7:07 PM According to the first link, she specialized in business transitions: growth, staff, procedural, software
me: she has experience in forensic bookkeeping, which I certainly don't
Scott: i don't even know what forensic bookkeeping is
7:08 PM have heard of forensic accounting
me: "I work with you to find out why “this owner’s reports have never been right”…I help you make those corrections and help explain them to your owner(s). I identify the procedure that may cause errors and help you organize the way you keep track of your business."
7:09 PM Scott: sounds like good stuff
me: we could probably start by asking her to look over what we've discussed so far in terms of communication methods
Scott: based on her website she certainly could have some good ideas
me: okay, just e-mailed her
me: another thing
me: on a similar subject
me: I wanted to start up another e-mail list by which to discuss the software schematics
me: I've asked Charles Johnson to participate and he's agreed
Clark: I think that is a great idea
me: Scott, you may be aware that he built up his blog and invented a number of features and helped to establish Pajamas Media
Scott: yea, i know nothing about coding but he seems to be very knowledgeable
me: If you would, put that down on our new ledger
Scott: is the task to start up software schematics email?
me: Yeah
me: including identifying those participants who would be good to bring in on this
Scott: ok, i'm going to make as two separate tasks
me: which shouldn't be hard as our member spreadsheet identifies the techies and those with other relevant insight
me: okay
me: In fact
Clark: scott, one of us needs to copy your revisions into the spreadsheet
me: It may be a good idea to actually hire Charles Johnson to program the thing itself
Clark: i was waiting on you and if you are waiting on me, i will just do it
Scott: i can do it
Scott: just had no idea how to properly integrate
Scott: if Charles is capable then i have no objections
Scott: his experience with blogging/commenting may prove useful
me: he does it for a living
Clark: just delete and replace, occasionally have to use key commands, when mouse does not work for copying
me: and it would be hard to find too many people with more relevant experience in coding
me: and having him be the one to do it will allow for promotional opportunities which will be handled for us by his many enemies, as usual
Scott: i certainly think it's a smart idea
Scott: would you cut you a break on the price?
me: I would imagine so
Scott: he*
me: particularly since we could probably offer him some sort of non-monetary payment on top of it
me: also I got him the True/Slant gig
Scott: clark, are you opposed to a word document rather than spreadsheet for the schematics?
me: having said that, he doesn't really owe me any favors insomuch as that he's helped to promote me quite a bit, but remember that he was actually the first person I talked to about this project
me: so he'd certainly be inclined to be involved on that front
Scott: ok additional task: negotiate with charles johnson as programmer
Scott: objections?
me: nope
me: another issue
me: Not sure how updated I've kept you on this, but I'm working with Robert Green, that producer, on two things
Clark: the reason i did it as a spreadsheet was that is the way Booz Allen Hamilton does it, i do not have any personal committent to any one format--apparently programmers are accustomed to receiving it in that form
Clark: Lockheed Martin also did it that way
me: first, scripts for Funny or Die, which is owned by Will Farrell and Adam McKay, who now know who I am thanks to Green
Clark: so i figured that was the naorm
Clark: norm;
me: secondly, he wants to produce a series in which I would do my anti-pundit thing
me: basically he's my top priority in terms of work insomuch as that he could get me all sorts of money and contacts and the ability to reach a much wider audience than I could normally
me: additionally, he originally contacted me about Project PM and is still interested in assisting with it
me: So, the money that I'd need to get this software made will come from him in one form or another
Scott: clark: when i worked for pinnacor (eventually merged with cbs marketwatch) the programming info was all word documents. not sure if that's outdated however. in any case, i'll put into spreadsheet format, just found the shared spreadsheet difficult to maneuver
Scott: barrett, ok so an ongoing task is working with green
me: yeah, and in fact my tasks for him should be one of the things that is scheduled for me to complete since they are integral to Project PM getting off the ground based on our ever-evolving plan
Clark: Any news on when HCF will be in the stores? It is timely as hell right now, Kruathhammer made a fool of himself over the mosques and Robt Stacy McCain is bromancing Todd Palin
me: so go ahead and set me up a short-term task for completion by Monday evening of the two script drafts I'm working on
Scott: clark, are you sure you want me to delete what is currently in the network functional capabilities spreadsheet?
me: No, all the publishing people are on vacation in August, New York is weird like that, waiting to hear back from them
Scott: barrett: are the two script drafts for funny or die or one is that another is anti-pundit?
me: both are for funny or die
me: also jotting down notes on how an anti-pundit show would work
Clark: as i recall, the only change you proposed that i did not totally agree with was deleting some explanatory item, that was of no direct use to a programmer, but which explained why we did not do something, and i thoguht it was useful background, otherwise, delete away--nothing is lost, every prior version is fully recoverable
Scott: barrett: task for anti-[undit 1 week?
Scott: clark: ok
me: no, wait on that until after I've spoken to Green on Monday when I turn in those scripts
me: then we'll set a schedule for a treatment or whatever one would call such a thing
me: need to see what ideas he's been thinking of since we last spoke
Scott: k
me: anything else that we should go over now? Otherwise, when should we talk next?
Scott: weekly?
Scott: when is the newsletter slated to go out?
me: Let's say Wednesday
me: And perhaps we should talk next Wednesday before I send it out that evening so that we can discuss the newsletter before it's sent out
Clark: makes sense to me
me: also, Clark, you had sent me an e-mail with suggestions as to format and whatnot, could you resend if you have it on hand?
Clark: sure
Scott: ok
me: Alright, so I'll be around between now and Wednesday if either of you think of anything else that we should discuss or that needs to be addressed
Scott: ok sounds good
me: alright, thanks again guys, will talk to you soon
Scott: i'll post some documents soon
Scott: kindly take a moment and note any necessary changes
me: great, share the task list with me when you get a moment and I'll look at that and the others tonight
Clark: OK , goodnight
me: adios
Scott: later