Subject: RE: Protein Wisdom |
From: "Darleen Click" <darleen@darleenclick.com> |
Date: 10/3/09, 23:10 |
To: "'Barrett Brown'" <barriticus@gmail.com> |
Barrett,
Believe this or not, I don’t believe a
person’s credibility is dependent
solely upon whether they agree with me or not.
That you do is very startling.
I have friends and co-workers I would
trust with my life and trust to give me correct information/facts on things
like “the sun rises in the east” that I have profound political differences with. The old 70’s
meme “the personal is the political”
has never lived in my home. Indeed, if you want to see the “root cause” (God,
how I hate that overused expression) of the death of civil disagreement, it
exists in that phrase.
It is why Amanda Marcotte felt compelled
to tell non-Leftists to “shut-up and go away” where it concerns rapist Roman
Polanski. It is why even the most reasonable arguments against same-sex
marriage are met with “YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE!!” or dissents from Obama’s policies
are met with “YOU ARE A RACIST!”
The effort to destroy the credibility of the person you politically, and merely, disagree with is
wrong. Such a scorched-earth approach absent any real evidence of personal malfeasance or malice
of misinformation is counter-productive. It is akin to giving 15 to life to
someone caught with a few doobies in their car.
I suggest you examine what you are trying
to accomplish because my perception is that “setting the record straight” is
not your actual goal.
Sincerely,
Darleen
PS I’ve had a very pleasant afternoon
entertaining my twin grandsons, seven y/o last Sunday. Living in the “now” for
a few hours and in real life imparts valuable perspective.
From: Barrett Brown
[mailto:barriticus@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009
6:25 PM
To: Darleen Click
Subject: Re: Protein Wisdom
Certainly you have
advocated that people "be stopped." When you criticize a politician
or his policies which you believe to be harmful or based on untruth, you are
attempting - as you should - to try to put a stop to that person's credibility
and his ability to accomplish his political goals; you are trying to convince
others not to vote for his party, to support the party that works against him,
and to voice their opposition to that person - to stop him. Likewise, when I
criticize a pundit or his assertions which I believe to be harmful or based on
untruth, I am trying to put a stop to that person's credibility and his
arguments, because I don't want disinformation to spread - I am trying to stop
that person from succeeding in his goal of convincing others. I'm not trying
to, like, "stop" anyone in the sense of tying them up and dropping
them down a well or anything like that. I'm just writing an essay in response
to what I think have been bad arguments. This is a very common thing to do, but
of course, since I'm the one doing it this time, a lot of people are engaging
in some pretty wacked-out histrionics.
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Darleen Click <darleen@darleenclick.com> wrote:
Barrett
With all due respect, this isn’t about my “feelings”. I am an
opinion writer, not a reporter. I
don’t deliberately engage in disseminating “inaccurate” facts. Have I
“attacked” other flesh-and-blood people? Well, I rarely “attack” dead people.
Certainly, though I would argue my tone is more mocking than “attack” And I
certainly have expressed my frustration and/or exasperation.
I don’t know what you mean “my job is to stop this from
happening”. Are opinions that do not fit in with your world view that
threatening you feel you must “put a stop” to them?
I’m curious, as I have never in any of my written pieces,
even the most mocking, have advocated that the people making fools of
themselves should “be stopped.”
What am I missing?
Sincerely
Darleen
From: Barrett Brown [mailto:barriticus@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009
11:11 AM
To: Darleen Click
Subject: Re: Protein Wisdom
Darleen-
The editor of Mad is Joe Raiola <joe.raiola@madmagazine.com>; he is always looking for
visual humor. I would suggest picking one or two of your best pics and sending
them along with a cover letter to the effect that you'd be interested in
assignments or just submitting some things down the road. There are a few other
publications you might want to get in contact with as well; the conservatives
weeklies seem to run full-page cartoons and the like on occasion, for instance.
I understand that you're a flesh-and-blood person with real feelings and the
like, and I can assure that I understand where you're coming from. The problem
is that you have made serious and continual errors in the course of attacking
other flesh-and-blood people, and that sometimes inaccurate information can
spread before it is corrected. My job is to try to stop this from happening. I
understand that you probably don't see any of the things you write as false or
misleading, but I do, and I'll be making that case in my article.
Barrett
On Sat,
Oct 3, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Darleen Click <darleen@darleenclick.com>
wrote:
Barrett
I rarely do “behind the scenes” emailing about posts I put up
unless it is something serious. Many times such emailing can create hard
feelings. I’m very open about myself, my background and see little reason not
to engage in an open forum about what I post.
Unfortunately due to time constraints (i.e. my day job and
family), I do not always read all the comment threads. I was, until yesterday,
unaware of your offer to put me in touch with anyone about my Photoshops. I so
sincerely thank you and yes, I would like that information.
I don’t believe you have been “uncivil” if we are talking
about tone. However, the dishonesty I detected goes to your sky-diving into a
thread and attempting to manufacture responses to your agenda. Now, of course,
you will disagree with my assessment. But on the ACORN thread several
commenters offered you legal descriptions of a “criminal enterprise” and you
either refused to respond or brushed them off. Civilly, of course, but such a
response gave immediate suspicion to commenters as a “bad faith” actor on your
part.
I am a manager and as such I deal with all sorts of personnel
issues on a day to day basis. I am “sensitized”, so to speak, on
passive-aggressive behavior and how some people can appear “civil” and still be
highly manipulative of others in order to produce the reactions they are
looking for. I have found myself on more than one occasion counseling not only
the reacting person on how they have been manipulated but also the person doing
the manipulating. Interestingly, the manipulator always denies their role; and
sometimes that is because they are entirely unaware of their own behavior.
I honestly believe if you really wanted to engage on good
faith debate, the PW regulars would have given you that debate. As you know, I
indeed corrected commenters that you were a “Leftist”. However, PW regulars are
suspicious (and with very good reason) of bad faith debaters. It would be
helpful if you realized your own role in creating the reactions you received.
If I may make an analogy – you cannot arrive at a party were everyone
is enjoying themselves and make snide comments about the quality of the guests
and party food and not get heated reactions. Barrett, regardless of your
resume, people look at behavior first and foremost. A disdain based on a
perceived idea of how “low brow” everyone else in the room is a sure recipe to
receive hostility. No one wants to be on the receiving end of barely disguised
condescension.
My offer to talk to you by phone is not in order to avoid a
paper trail. Indeed, at work I put into place an A.V.O. procedure (avoid verbal
orders). However, I wanted it more as an opportunity for you to understand me
as an actual living breathing human being and why I think the way I do. My
presumption, at this time and fully acknowledged that I may be wrong, is that
you carry some sort of cartoon idea of what I am (or any of the people at PW)
in your head. I am looking to disabuse you of that notion.
Last September I did an interview with Skewz about PW and I
think you should listen to it to give you at least some idea of who I am and
how the PW commentariat works.
Sincerely
Darleen
From: Barrett Brown [mailto:barriticus@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009
9:58 AM
To: Darleen Click
Subject: Re: Protein Wisdom
Darleen-
I'd be happy to chat with you via phone if you'd like, but I prefer to have a
paper trail when dealing with anything related to my work.
You've had my e-mail address for months and have been free to contact me at any
time, as it's included in my post registration and I even provided it to you
and everyone else a few days ago in the course of offering to put you in touch
with an editor at MAD that might be interested in your Photoshop pieces. Let me
know if you would still like that info.
As far as I can tell, the last question you asked me was something like,
"Why are you being so dishonest?" That's not the sort of question I
can answer without resorting to sarcasm. If you have any other, better
questions that aren't loaded, I will certainly do my best to answer them.
I will note that both Jeff and Dan have already conceded that my behavior has
always been civil and that I have always engaged everyone in an honest manner,
as will be noted in the article. Since the current strategy at PW hinges on
trying to paint me as uncivil and dishonest, I would suggest that you fellows
develop a new strategy.
Regards,
Barrett Brown
On Sat,
Oct 3, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Darleen Click <darleen@darleenclick.com>
wrote:
Mr.
Brown,
In
regards to the hit piece you’re putting out on PW, you’re talking to Jeff and
Dan Collins but haven’t made the first effort to talk to me?
I’m
available; I’ll even give you my phone number.
What
say you?
Darleen Click