M[arshall]: When was this?

B: Two weeks ago? I addressed the Libyan Parliament on condition that they in fact broadcast everything I said uninterrupted and unedited -- and they did, nationwide. Now, here's the point I want to make. The irony of all ironies is -- and I'll ask this as a general rhetorical question -- do you think anybody -- Let's just take Iran. The rationale of Wolfowitz and company was -- there is a more than a nascent, there is a genuine desire for democratization in Iran. There has been genuine proof and efforts of movement toward that. Whether it is Khatami, who okay, who pushed as far as he could but would push much further if he could. There was this momentum building and a critical mass being generated in Iraq [he means Iran] that, given sustenance and help, would eventually overtake the clerics.

Wolfowitz's argument -- I don't know this for a fact, but the neocon argument was -- the demonstration of power on their border, as awesome as it is, would chasten the clerics in a way that they would do one of two things: They would make a deal with and enhance the democratization taking place, or the democratizers would be more bold and move the clerics out of the way. I'm oversimplifying a bit, just a tad.

What has happened? Once the clerics realized that the hands of this administration are now tied in terms of our own public and the stretched-thin capacity of the United States military -- 375,000 people engaged abroad -- what did they do? Something they would have never done before that power was exercised. They wiped out, in the clear view of day, with all the world to see, the democratic instincts, the democratic institutions, and the democratic, how could I say it, the emerging democratic consensus. Unabashedly, they just said, Boom, 198 of you can't run, you're out of the parliament. It's like King George II going out, King George II dissolving the parliament. Now think about that. I mean, literally, nobody's focused on that.

I'm gonna -- you know, when you get the Pulitzer, I want a piece of it.

M: Okay. Heh heh.

[crosstalk]

B: Obviously I'm being a wise guy. But all kidding aside, think about it. I mean, just think of it. [unintelligible] Just think of it in a totally cold and calculating way. Can you imagine, can you image a year and a half ago, immediately after 9/11 when we were in Afghanistan, can you imagine the clerics doing that? I can't.

But why have they done it now. Same reason Bashir Asad saw Jesus immediately and all of a sudden realized they can't do anything. And as for Qaddafi making the deal? That deal was made two months before we went into Iraq and Qaddafi was very straightforward with me. I mean this was one hard-assed son of a bitch. This guy looked like he had -- as big as cue balls, this guy was serious. I looked at him like, whoa, this guy's like shoe leather. I probably drive Norm [communication director Norm Kurz]-- but he's an athlete as well -- I drive him crazy. I always put things in the context of me looking at the other guy in the field. Do I know that he knows that I know that I can beat him? Or does he know that I know that he can beat me? Well, look at Qaddafi, it's like -- yo, Richie, this guy, I wouldn't screw with this guy, in terms of his personal -- Qaddafi sits there and he says to me -- first of all he walked in and says, "You know, I only have a few minutes," through an interpreter. I said, "That's no problem, we can go, it's really nice." "No, no, no, just sit here a minute." I said, "No you're busy, we don't want to take your time we don't need to take your time. It's okay." "No, no, no," he says, "You have a question" -- I'm paraphrasing -- "do you have a question?"

And I said, "Yeah, why, why the change of heart?" And he says, "The real question is" -- through an interpreter -- "The real question is, why did we get off this way, why did you sanction me in the first place?"

I looked at him and said, "That's easy. You're a terrorist." I didn't mince, I said, "You are a terrorist." I said, you know I leaned to him and said, "You've engaged in supporting terrorists. Matter of fact, you blew up 35 of the kids who went to my alma mater along with another hundred or so people. You're a terrorist, that's why."

He sits there and he goes like this, he goes, "That's logical." (laughs) I mean the guy was great! And I said, "So, Okay. Tell me why." And he went, Well -- I'm paraphrasing -- "Nuclear weapons didn't help you very much in Vietnam, they didn't help you in Iraq and if I ever used them you'd blow me away." Not my phrase, blow me away, but whatever he said, you know. And they're expensive, they didn't do anything for me. So what do I need 'em for? Deterrence works for states.

Second, he says -- I said, how about the best -- you were in the room, Richard -- the best one was about terrorist groups. I said to him, I said, "Why refrain from supporting terror?" And he says the following -- chime in if you have -- if I leave some of -- he said, I supported the PLO, the ANC, the IRA, Hamas, and he listed, the Sandinistas --

Aide: He went way back.

B: He went way back. He went back and named people I wasn't even sure he ever supported. And he looks at me and he says -- I forget the exact phrase -- he says, And they made their own bargains.

Aide: He said they've all been on the White House lawn.

Biden: Yeah, he said, they've all been on the White House lawn. (laughs) And he says, So basically -- I forget the phrase -- but he said, "Why should I be purer than they? I'm getting penalized for this, these buys are cutting their own deals." But the phrase was, "and they all ended up on the White House lawn." Gerry Adams, Yassir Arafat, etc.

So it's basically like, what am I doing this for? So he looks at me and he says, "That's the reason."

And I said, jokingly, "That's logical."

-- 
Caleb Alan Pritchard
Big Fish Films
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